Maemo Wiki Mirror - User contributions [en]

Talk:Task:Components and packages

2012-10-24T02:45:40Z

94.181.168.128: /* gzzxcvasx */ new section

=== ToDo ===
The current version satisfies the core mission of this task. However, there is some work that could be done to improve it. Tha raw data is available so anybody can continue the work.

* Better organization of packages. Ideally there would be a basic overview of the areas of the platform, a second level with the specific software components of each area and a third level listing the packages under a component.
* Nicer presentation of graphics and data in the spreadsheet.
* Export the data to HTML or PDF for easier access.

* Introduce approximate lines of code or size of each package to have a better view of the dimensions of each packages and the open/closed relation in a more accurate way. Now ''operator-wizard'' appears just as big as the whole Linux Kernel.
** Done. Just missing some packages.--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 07:17, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
* Is it worth listing the specific licenses of each open source package? It's mostly a manual work...
** Not requikred, as agreed yesterday in the Sprint3 planning meeting.--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 07:17, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

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Talk:Task:100Days

2012-10-23T17:08:37Z

94.181.168.128: /* gzzxcvasx */ new section

== Next Steps ==
It looks like the 100 Days brainstorm has reached its conclusion. The pre-agreed ideas will be discussed next Tuesday in the maemo.org June sprint meeting. We might add more tasks coming from the current backlog. The ideas ''still under discussion'' should be probably moved to the 2010 Agenda for further brainstorm.--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 20:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

== Scope of the 100 Days ==

== How can I help? ==

How can I help in this process, as one of the people responsible of the maemo.org planning at Nokia? I could help organizing the content, identifying what is out of scope or what more realistically falls in the Agenda 2010. Or I could just shut up and let you work. :) fyi, in the meantime I'm already working on the maemo.org short and mid term plans internally at Nokia. --[[User:qgil|qgil]] 19:05, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think a little direction will repress things too much at this point, and I definitely thing it will help stimulate and focus the brainstorm. Not only because of the clearer definition of purpose, scope and direction, but also from the interest a more visible Nokia involvement would make. The end result, of course, being a much more productive session. --[[User:generalantilles|generalantilles]] 20:15, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
::I will start leaving signed comments, not to touch the original text. Then you decide what to do with it.--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 06:20, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

== Russian language section ==
Is it possible to create the Russian-language section of wiki ? We would like to move here wiki.internet-tablet.com materials and translations. --[[User:dik|dik]] 22:30, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
::Interesting, but out of scope in the [[100Days]] work. I recommend you to ask at [[Talk:Maemowiki_Action_Group]].--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 23:01, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

== Clear and useful planning pages ==

The 100 days page is getting longer. I think at the end what we all want to have is a list of clear actions, being most/all of them links to pages where each action is discussed and planned in detail. Proposal to get there:
* Create pages for those topics that already got interest and meat enough. Move there all their related ideas and comments. This includes the content in this discussion lisrt, since having it hidden here or even duplicated is not going to help.
* Put at the top the items that are pre-agreed: no-brainer stuff, items with lots of community support, items already acceopted by Nokia and/or the maemo.org guys.
* New good ideas are added in the bottom and end up either in the top after being pre-agreed, or moved to other existing pages.
--[[User:qgil|qgil]] 08:09, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

= Proposals out of scope =
Archiving here proposals that don't fit in the 100 Days exercise. Please relocate somewhere if the ideas are good.

== Update developer libraries ==
* gcc-4.x, glib, powervr, it's important to give developers much more time to play with newer tools than short before a major upgrade takes place (of course with disclaimer that nothing is guaranteed to be shipped in a certain way)
* Update the vmware appliance with sb2 and python2.5 setted. And more publicity on the vmware appliance, as there is already one on garage, but many don't know it.
:''This is out of scope in this maemo.org exercise. About giving more publicity to https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-sdk/ and http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/ - it's currently an alpha and the developers don't feel like advertising it much more. But anybody can follow the Garage project and, well, nobody is stopping you from advertise it more. :) --[[User:qgil|qgil]] 07:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)''
::''Alpha status doesn't mean that it is unusable, I use this VM regularly and it works very well. I really think this one should be promoted on maemo.org. --[[User:xfade|xfade]] 13:55, 2 June 2008 (UTC)''
::: ''Official x86_64 support will be great or at least i386 on top of x86_64. Other distributions too - some of them only need an alien. [[User:bundyo|bundyo]] 20:47, 2 June 2008 (UTC)''

== A few suggestions for developers ==
A few more suggestions for developers - the bottom rungs of the ladder.

1. Validate and verify the tools installation for the current shipping version, particularly the HOWTO. I follow the instructions but nothing builds. At least until I do an apt-get dist-upgrade, update, upgrade or something similar, then apt-get the -dev versions of a half dozen things, none of which is mentioned. Which brings me to:

2. Insure the hello-world will actually build on a system cleanly installed following the exact instructions from step 1. (I had to edit things in mine) and form a deb which will work on a tablet - both install and remove. Also split out stand-alone versions to use as templates (I can't get a statusbar only version to come up as everything seems to be interdependent). Maemopad is a great write template, but a paint template (slightly more than trivial graphic demo) would be nice.

Hildon is not something I've dealt with, and has its own quirks along with GTK. They aren't bad, but I could spend a week just learning the ins and outs. But there aren't very many examples I can just change the icons and add in a chunk of code to do a simple task as a starting point, at least not without doing a lot of searching (e.g. some statusbar clocks are stand-alone).

3. Simplify the autogen/automake/autoconf stuff. Most of this will only be run under fixed releases, so the checking for some specific version of 20 libraries is redundant, and makes the build horribly complicated. Either in scratchbox things are there or not (and see #1 above if they are not! I also have to keep doing apt-gets since I need -dev of everything and often don't have them). Do I really need libtool for a trivial statusbar app?

:Autoconf is actually quite important for code portability, not only across maemo releases (1.0, 1.1, mistral, scirocco, bora, chinook, diablo and so on) but also (and more importantly) across platforms. There is a lot of cross-pollination happening right now, and that's a very good thing IMHO. It will make your life much easier when you decide to port your application to (for example) Ubuntu Mobile, Openmoko or "desktop" GNOME, and it also makes porting stuff from other platforms to maemo simpler.
: Having said that, it is a bit of a learning curve, but perhaps what's needed is more entry-level documentation/tutorials (chapter 5 is a very good start at that) and tools to simplify bootstrapping (like the anjuta plugin).
:: Autoconf is not necessary to write portable software, while making your makefiles unreadable. Therefore, its use has to be made optional.

The goal is that anyone should be able to do a working deb for a trivial off-the-cuff application or status bar, home, or control panel applet in 5 minutes by doing a global substitute (or perhaps changing a few lines of the form: #define APPNAME HILDON_HELLO_WORLD, #define AppName HildonHelloWorld, #define appname hildon_hello_world, etc.) and adding a few lines of code and scaled icons.

And for "garage", there should be one centralized repository, so there would be a "garage" parallel to "extras" with all betas and releases not higher up in the chain. Right now I've got dozens of archives and sources, so when I do a restore it becomes a nightmare getting all the applications back and it makes application manager slower having to go through dozens of archives. It doesn't help having a "garage page" if it is not much better than hosting offsite. But then for all these add-ons I could just do apt-get source and/or apt-get install. Maybe this is what "extras" is for, but it seems to never work or have anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:70.209.165.167|70.209.165.167]] 19:32, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

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Talk:Root access

2012-10-23T08:11:24Z

94.181.168.128: /* gzzxcvasx */ new section

== easyroot ==
Should we have Wiki pages promoting non-Extras debs?

Can we get "easyroot" into Extras as I would like to propose that we do not promote in the Wiki any deb package that is NOT in Extras (and with full source code). Alternatively, whatever happened to "becomeroot" which used to be the defacto package for anyone wanting to get root. All "becomeroot" does is replace the standard gainroot script - does anyone know what easyroot does to the tablet? —[[User:milhouse|milhouse]]
:Well, becomeroot isn't in Extras, either, and the 3rd-party repository it's in seems to be down/losing distributions all the time. Somebody needs to poke ag2 (I think he's the one, anyway) about getting his stuff in Extras, but at least nitapps.com is stable. Personally, I'm going to be a bit pragmatic on this point. I'm for "whatever makes the least amount of pain and suffering for users", if that happens to be a package outside of Extras, so be it. We can always put the wiki article up, then endless pester the developer about uploading it to Extras after that. Besides, there isn't a solution in Extras for this particular problem. easyroot does pretty much the exact same thing as becomeroot, except it also lets you type just "root". —[[User:generalantilles|GeneralAntilles]] 10:06, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::I have a copy of [http://nmacleod.com/nokia/becomeroot.deb becomeroot] on my web space which installed just fine on Diablo - would it be possible to "fork" this and put it on Extras as the original developer doesn't seem to be around and there isn't really much to develop any more. Since it's also just a replacement gainroot script the deb is essentially the source code. —[[User:milhouse|milhouse]]
:::If you want to do that and be responsible for packaging it up for Extras, that's perfectly fine by me. —[[User:generalantilles|GeneralAntilles]] 10:18, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::::I genuinely would if I had a clue. :( I may get a clue (about packaging) eventually but it won't be any time soon. —[[User:milhouse|milhouse]]
:::::I uploaded a easyroot clone to chinook and diablo extras (and -devel) called rootsh. GeneralAntilles already updated this page a while ago pointing to it. Just updating talk for informational purposes. —[[User:qwerty12|qwerty12]] 17:48, 14 July 2008 (BST)

== sudo gainroot ==
Many old articles and ITT posts talk about executing "sudo gainroot" to get root, yet easyroot apparently uses another command ("root") to switch to the super user - more than one command to perform the same function is unecessary and confusing, we should where possible stick with "sudo gainroot" as the standard "get root" command as this covers both R&D mode and the "traditional" becomeroot method. —[[User:milhouse|milhouse]]
:Eh, whichever. How about "Then, from the shell, run <code>sudo gainroot</code> (or <code>root</code> for short). This will give you a root shell."? —[[User:generalantilles|GeneralAntilles]] 10:08, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::It's a minor point I know but we'll be shooting ourselves in the foot if we introduce multiple options - think about all the future articles where root access may be required, are we really going to mention all of the possible options depending on what package the user has installed? Seperate issue... why isn't my username appearing after my replies? :) —[[User:milhouse|milhouse]]
:::Because you aint doin' it right. :P <nowiki>—~~~~</nowiki> (or you can use, --, I suppose ;)) —[[User:generalantilles|GeneralAntilles]] 10:21, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::::4*~ did the trick - thanks! —[[User:milhouse|milhouse]] 10:23, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

== Package Installation ==
This article has the comment "Install easyroot from nitapps.com" but doesn't explain how a deb file or package might be installed - we should have a page devoted to installing applications which can be linked to from other pages discussing the installation of packages etc. —[[User:milhouse|milhouse]]
:Fine with me. Can I take that as volunteering? ;) —[[User:generalantilles|GeneralAntilles]] 10:09, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::I shall have a go - really just throwing ideas out there in case I don't have the time! :)

== R&D Mode ==
Can someone more knowledgable than I highlight the downsides of R&D mode in this article - doesn't the device use more battery power when in R&D mode, possibly because it doesn't idle as often as it could? —[[User:milhouse|milhouse]]
:I don't think that's true. Certainly there are other options you can enable with the flasher (e.g. serial console) which ''does'' drain the battery faster. But R&D on its own doesn't - unless something has changed recently. --[[User:jaffa|Jaffa]] 10:47, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::I might be wrong - I hope I am! - but I'm sure I read somewhere that R&D mode may influence the behaviour of WiFi, amongst other things (although I don't recall who wrote the post, so it may be completely bogus). It would be nice to have a quote from a Nokia techie giving chapter and verse on R&D mode, or a link to a new page detailing R&D mode and the other flasher flags. --[[User:milhouse|milhouse]] 11:00, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
:::We need an equivalent of Wikipedia's "<sup>citation needed</sup>" ;-) --[[User:jaffa|Jaffa]] 11:11, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::::We need the [https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3283 citation plugin] first. ;) —[[User:generalantilles|GeneralAntilles]] 11:22, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disclaimer required ==
This article needs a disclaimer both to protect Nokia and the foolish. —[[User:milhouse|milhouse]]
:Agreed on the foolish aspect. But this is now a community wiki, do we need to protect Nokia? Strong warnings dissuade people playing. May be worth emphasising that no matter how hard you try, a reflash should fix it? --[[User:jaffa|Jaffa]] 17:15, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::The old midgard root access page had a disclaimer for Nokia, I think it's only fair to warn users that root access isn't sanctioned by Nokia, and that a reflash should always get you out of trouble! --[[User:milhouse|milhouse]] 19:53, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Quoting [[user:qgil|qgil]]:
<qgil> GeneralAntilles: something like that disclaimer should be put at some point in the footer for all pages :)
<qgil> I mean the whole maemo.org, now it says "Sponsored by Nokia"
<qgil> then it's the maemo.org community who could have a specific warning in specific pages to avoid confusion and,
<qgil> what is more important
<qgil> let them know that "The steps described in this page might lead to severe damage in your system and/or your device.
You are at your own risk and you are supposed to know what you are doing"
<qgil> or something along these lines
:::The current warning is probably a little harsh, though, feel free to revise. —[[User:generalantilles|GeneralAntilles]] 03:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Done. --[[User:jaffa|Jaffa]] 08:38, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

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